2. Mr. J vs. UnbornBuddha - (Mr. J wins)

[Vulgar]

You've been enlisted for an abstract cause.

NO LINE LIMIT
VOTE ON OTHER BATTLES (thanks)

Verses Due Sunday Morning.
Midnight Western / 3 AM Eastern / 8 AM UK.
(Extensions only granted if opponent accepts, anything else is unaccepted.)

Voting Ends Monday Night
12 AM Western / 3AM Eastern / 8 AM UK.
Exceptions can be made if a suitable reason is supplied
Remember The Earlier The Verses In The Sooner The Votes
Have Fun
Peace


Topic:

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/321/d/3/schlechtenhuegels_traum_2_by_seyk-d6un0l7.jpg

@Mr J UnbornBuddha

[UnbornBuddha]

are verses due tomorrow? Or next Sunday?

[Vulgar]

Next Sunday.

[Mr. J]

Next Sunday whaaaat.....check

[UnbornBuddha]

Alright then. Good luck Mr. J

[UnbornBuddha]

The tragic conquest over mortality

Pagans call our system the religion of apes
So we signed up, as a mission of faith, wisdom and grace
To do sanctimonious raids on the village these animals graze
I Hoenheim, did my duty by impaling their hearts with imperial stakes
Blocking all sympathy by reminding myself of their egotistical reign
In war, one must see their enemies’ suffering in a metaphorical way
After all, we swore knighthood over everything in this material plane.
The chosen ones, with battle gear in the guise of biblical saints
Yet, it was smeared in the blood of the victims we slayed
Holy military campaigns that feudalism had to make
To purge out the deficiencies that triggered our pain
Apotheosis became a bewitchment we gained
The blood of Christ ran down our innocent face
Our interpretation of the lord became an abysmal plague,
A manifestation of mental constructs that rippled in our veins.
Pray for our sake, for only the abyss awaits, oblivion’s cave
The papacy promise of eternity afflicted and conflicted our brains
Oh, the shame! Of being ordained in a baptism of flames
Mind and body separating in a schism of change. Prisoners of fate
That realized too late the Byzantine Empire was the prison that had Jesus enslaved.
We were insurmountably foolish to think any chivalry was attained
In participating in this holy touted journey, the Christian Crusades.
As the Middle Ages waned, so did the mystique of our mystical way.

The Vatican real aim was to create a ripe alchemical opportunity
To acquire an ethereal jewelry with unequivocal purity
One of a kind power that secures their spiritual immunity
A legendary stone that man sought in prototypal lunacy
But, it only could be spawned at the cost of physical mutiny,
Manipulated to do their bidding, we the crusaders had our organs ruined
We massacred countless of other humans
All for a corpus we concluded as the moral solution.
We were promised eternal life, but not in the form of mutants
The guiding material of our righteous swords was putrid
I doubt that at any junction was the lord looking,
If nothing more, our exploits are his worldly amusement.

Ergot contaminants made our daily rye bread have crippling effects,
Poisonous fungal alkaloids with no hallucinogenic or medicinal effect
Plenary indulgences took us into the lands of sinners and dead
But, we didn’t die, we became the walking undead, Solomon’s pets
Rotting in the flesh, godliness left, but we still carry in our hearts god’s spiritus.
Cursed to walk this land forever looking for the Saracen Saladin serpent’s head
But long ago, did our adversary reach the title of emeritus.
What merit is there in living now? For zombified, I can’t perish yet.
The mysteriousness of Constantinople was eluded to be its sterile crest,
Where once peace is secured never will there be a perilous end.
The All decreed us brethren, and we still had war with them
But in end of it all, the Vicar of Christ did not win any immortality,
He wasn’t deemed worthy to be bestowed global abbacy.
We the bearers of the sins were, but as totality would have it,
We look like a universal tragedy. I should have never served the royal family!
The cross depiction we wore did not have Yeshua, but a plutocrat crucified
Aristocrat suicide, for the sake of neutralizing the commoner’s impure nucleotides
Eugenic transmutation that does not have any epigenetic connotation
I know all too well, what we take at face value is but senseless computation.
As they are… life, death, and the beyond have no esoteric annotation.

[Mr. J]

Father Time, Life, Death & Eternity

Time is an issue that became hasty, enigmatic, foolish & cocky.
Life circled time as if an answer would take root in the thoughts…
‘Leave! I will no longer discuss such an idea nor condone its use!’
Arguments flare nightly to the point the furnace couldn’t hold the feuds
“I’ve known the truth! And kept proper eye on those close to you
And to follow law as it was written and ignore fact is I quote ‘abuse’”
The night took a turn for the worst when an unexpected visitor intruded
“I am only basing this on the reality of man & his need for survival
The need to grow is a necessity, and to learn is more than vital..”
‘To stand the test of time, and live beyond death seems ill advised
Even with all the good that can happen, the negative will survive’
“We cannot omit the fact these creatures have the ability to reproduce
And with the natural ability to learn they could seize the clues..”
‘Be that as it may, but to learn of destruction will leave a mark long after them.
To build upon that is a blueprint and that is where ‘wrath’ begins’
‘If that happens then they are left with the choice to document action
To become wise, a force, a society of nobility if they were to avoid obvious passions’
‘Give them knowledge; if society was chaos tomorrow, knowledge is exempt!’
“In defense, the desire to learn is beyond any of our other promised attempts.”
We were born under a light, a light that guided us to all walks of life
We watched as each sprout was given the gift of life, it lived, it died…
It would give then strive. From the animals from the deepest end of the ocean
To the mountains... to the first human with their sense of emotions
Now we witness the need to learn from one’s mistakes, build a system for growth
It stands against what we once believed in, but it is a small glimpse of ‘Hope’
“Life for man will continue as planned… but his memories shall live on
I find it obscure for you to debate my very strength in this argument…’
‘It’s odd enough trying to grasp the idea that you think they deserve chances
They should be born perfect! I will take no other under any circumstances…’
“Don’t be foolish! For me to even seek your council in this was beyond reasonable
We shall proceed as Death has found fit. Welcome Eternity to do all that is redeemable”
‘I am honored. It is a blessing to carry on the lead in this quest for knowledge
For the Life of Man will be remembered beyond Death, To continue beyond Time in homage
to be taught, to understand the capabilities we have placed in their hands earnestly
they will be molded perfectly, & their footsteps will echo throughout Eternity…”
With that final statement we stood in silence under the light post where Time rested
Where Life ended, and I buried all of the hope for humanity until tonight’s message
Through the articulation of the mind they acquired the writings on the wall
Soon they will develop the ability to form speech in which will be defining them all
At last… the battle on what to do with Time is resolved

[Geno]

Really enjoyed buddas take on the twisted dark side of biblical times and things.
Was really gruesome in areas. A lot of material written here man. Holy fuck
I dont think either one surpassed the other technically.. was a pretty evenly matched set of skills as for writing goes.
Budda went with a more obvious approach.. i say that because its one of the first ideas that come when i see the topic

Mr.j came with a hint more creativity. Was able to match the darkness budda had imo
I like dark shut so theres no real sway there. Pretty even on both sides other than i feel that mr j went a bit less predictable in his take.

Theres a ton of material here..
Jeres tghe problem.. i liked both sides. I think you both match well and that makes this a great battle. i gotta go with who i think came more creative line for line.. and i got mr.j in this one.

Even though budda wrote a lot more. His shit reay started to become a snore fest. And i hate to say something that derogatory in a vote. But i really lost interest. If it werent a bsttle i would have stopped readibing it.

Mr.j im goibg with you.. i have to say though.. i really dislimed the style you went with as far as flow .. it read more like a battle verse in that it was more settup delivery and didnt feed much into the next set of lines with smooth transitions. I mean face it. We all know im gonna be hard on verses that dont read smooth beings that i put so much pride into my own reading smooth.

Regardless. You took it for your approach. Thought it was a dope concept and i enjoyed it more

[Woke]

Good god Buddha, this was some deep shit. I take it as the crusaders of the cross, I can't remember there name, but basically the "hands of god" who road around slaughtering countless souls protecting the holey grail or searching for it, I can't remember. Any way, there is so much good packed into this verse I don't know where to begin. I love how you humanized and gave reason behind all of the killings. They weren't just doing it because they were psycho, they did it because they believed they were doing a god's will, and that line about them being his amusement was fitting and witty as well. This was more of a story then verse to me, I only have the time to give it a single read so sorry about that, but there is something to be said that I was so wrapped into what was happening that I didn't notice the flow. I exaggerate a bit because I did notice the solid rhyming, but I can not recall a single bar that I thought didn't flow because I was into the story telling itself. Although I have unorthodox religious beliefs, nobody can deny that a group of men lived and murdered who ever's path they crossed in the name of the Vatican or god him self. Great read, thank you.

MR. J, mind fuckery at it's finest. This verse was superbly penned and just a joy to read, I am literally awed at the amount of knowledge and just pure depth of thought you were able to conjure up in what I view as a confined and short verse considering it's overall impact and massive material. So these are our creators huh? I loved the flip, you thought outside of the box and executed with ease, not sure if ease is the right word because this verse read with ease but seems like it was written with close attention to detail and precision. I liked the whole life, death or eternity juxtaposition and argument. I liked how you incorporated many voices. This was very smart because it opened up your ability to take different stances, it basically gave you more ammo. A joy to read.



Vulgar if you end up with an uneven amount of competitors may I implore you to advance who ever loses this battle? please and thank you. They are equally deserving.



This is a very, very tough vote. While I feel like you both should advance as these are my two favorite verses of the week so far (read everything except 3 verses so far) I sadly must vote.

Mr. J This vote is based purely off his twist on topic. While you both did something amazing, I just feel like him going big picture slightly edged it for me personally. What I mean is while UB wrote about real events on a earthly realm, Mr. J went more on a grand scale, Macro vs. Microcosm in a sense, and I simply enjoyed the macro a bit more.


Great Battle nay. Two great verses period. Not even verses, two solid works of literature in my mind. Thank you both for the pleasurable reads.

[Soulstice]

Unborn - some imagery was laden with too many words, like the poisoned bread part. The first stanza was dope because it personalized one soldier of the crusades and made him doubt that his actions were morally correct, but then you zoomed out and traversed the battlefield for a bit, before settling in at the last stanza where regret was then expressed. I thought it was redundant, although the ending wrapped it up succintly. THere could have been less words. I think your style lends itself to more metaphysical philosophical stuff a la Sacrifice, and this is a little bit played concept and didn't dig deep into me.

MRJ - This was dope. The ending was cool. The personalities of Time, Death and Life were good, life was really pushing the benevolence, eternity was kinda eh, but still for the length of the piece they were developed pretty impressively. Good work

v/ mr j

conceptually executed well and mechanically better.

[Pent uP]

unborn -- A little over burdened did the verse feel. End Yoda speech. Everything felt a little over the top in this verse. Some of the imagery was over the top; some of the wording was over the top; and some of the rhyming was over the top. By over the top I mean that it seemed like you knew what you were doing but you were doing it too much...does that make sense? IDK. As far as the subject matter -- it definitely went over my head and I couldn't relate to it much, sorry.

Mr. J - I have mixed feelings here. First question: what is the real difference between father time and eternity? You can't really have eternity without father time, right? IDK, seems like a redundant character choice. I could see how I could be wrong, but I dont agree that they are different. Secondly, having multiple characters in a verse that is all dialogue makes it really confusing. I've done this before and it was hard to get through (in retrospect), and this was the same in that respect. Figuring out who was saying what, and trying to figure out if there were little idiosyncrasies or plays off the characters was a bit of a chore. That all aside, there was some nice soap box material here, and I liked the ending.

Overall -- this battle was hard for me to decide on, and I have to give it to the verse I found more ambitious. I think both were well done in their respective approaches but I think one verse encapsulated the idea of the tournament as well as painted a more in depth scope of ideas

vote - Unborn

[Ullr]

The tragic conquest over mortality

Pagans call our system the religion of apes
So we signed up, as a mission of faith, (I would have inserted the word "with" here because it not only smooths out the flow ever so slightly but also creates a little bit of alliteration - 'with wisdom') wisdom and grace
To do sanctimonious raids on the village (more transition necessary here, just something - "these" is referring to animals but one might assume you mean those who are being raided or do the raiding are grazing which is an odd verb for a raiding party, feel me?) these animals graze
I Hoenheim, did my duty by impaling their hearts with imperial stakes
Blocking all sympathy by reminding myself of their egotistical reign
In war, one must see their enemies’ suffering in a metaphorical way
After all, we swore knighthood over everything in this material plane.
The chosen ones, with battle gear in the guise of biblical saints
Yet, it was smeared in the blood of the victims we slayed
Holy military campaigns that feudalism had to make
To purge out the deficiencies that triggered our pain
Apotheosis became a bewitchment we gained
The blood of Christ ran down our innocent face
Our interpretation of the lord became an abysmal plague,
A manifestation of mental constructs that rippled in our veins.
Pray for our sake, for only the abyss awaits, oblivion’s cave
The papacy promise of eternity afflicted and conflicted our brains
Oh, the shame! Of being ordained in a baptism of flames
Mind and body separating in a schism of change. Prisoners of fate
That realized too late the Byzantine Empire was the prison that had Jesus enslaved.
We were insurmountably foolish to think any chivalry was (here 'was' seems superfluous - chivralry attained does the job well enough, both are not perfect in terms of the placement in the line because they are not exact multi matches to the prior line but I always prefer removing the extra word if it is a coin flip between one or the other) attained
In participating in this holy touted journey, the Christian Crusades.
As the Middle Ages waned, so did the mystique of our mystical way.

The Vatican real aim was to create a ripe alchemical opportunity
To acquire an ethereal jewelry with unequivocal purity
One of a kind power that secures their spiritual immunity
A legendary stone that man sought in prototypal lunacy
But, it only could be spawned at the cost of physical mutiny,
Manipulated to do their bidding, we the crusaders had our organs ruined
We massacred countless of (of is unnecessary and grammatically questionable) other humans
All for a corpus we concluded as the moral solution.
We were promised eternal life, but not in the form of mutants
The guiding material of our righteous swords was putrid
I doubt that at any junction was the lord looking,
If nothing more, our exploits are his worldly amusement.

Ergot contaminants made our daily rye bread have crippling effects,
Poisonous fungal alkaloids with no hallucinogenic or medicinal effect
Plenary indulgences took us into the lands of sinners and dead
But, we didn’t die, we became the walking undead, Solomon’s pets
Rotting in the flesh, godliness left, but we still carry in our hearts god’s spiritus.
Cursed to walk this land forever looking for the Saracen Saladin serpent’s head
But long ago, did our adversary reach the title of emeritus.
What merit is there in living now? For zombified, I can’t perish yet.
The mysteriousness of Constantinople was eluded to be its sterile crest,
Where once peace is secured never will there be a perilous end.
The All decreed us brethren, and we still had war with them
But in end of it all, the Vicar of Christ did not win any immortality,
He wasn’t deemed worthy to be bestowed global abbacy.
We the bearers of the sins were, but as totality would have it,
We look like a universal tragedy. I should have never served the royal family!
The cross depiction we wore did not have Yeshua, but a plutocrat crucified
Aristocrat suicide, for the sake of neutralizing the commoner’s impure nucleotides
Eugenic transmutation that does not have any epigenetic connotation
I know all too well, what we take at face value is but senseless computation.
As they are… life, death, and the beyond have no esoteric annotation.

Okay, so first I want to say this was an impressive piece for the most part, there were certainly some lines that seemed unusual or unnatural but overall I think you did a very good job of keeping the tension and keeping the story rolling without breaking too heavily from your rhyme scheme and rhythm. I think your vocabulary and literary elements were solid, you were consistent and stayed so throughout - you had a clear goal and kept adding little bits and pieces to accomplish it. I think there were some phrasing issues and some ways the lines could have been cleaner - extra words and unneeded additions which in excess become repetitive. Further, I think, and I know this is the style here but regardless, I felt it was a little too long. If it had been 3/4 of the current length and wrapped up cleanly I would have been like daaaaaamn that was some piece. As it stood, in its length I felt nothing that revivified the verse as it got longer. It just did the same thing a little differently and that got tired a little toward the end. I think you did a great job but I also think that if you were more critical of the verse you might have foreshortened it a bit to clean up the reader's experience because in writing that is what it is all about. We all have a trove of lines that never reach the page - don't worry about those lines. Let them be cast adrift like dust in the winds.

Solid verse. I'm excited to see your opponent's verse if, according to the thread title, he was ranked higher than you. Let's find out why!

Onward!

Father Time, Life, Death & Eternity

Time is an issue that became hasty, enigmatic, foolish & cocky.
Life circled time as if an answer would take root in the thoughts…
‘Leave! I will no longer discuss such an idea nor condone its use!’
Arguments flare nightly to the point the furnace couldn’t hold the feuds
“I’ve known the truth! And kept proper eye on those close to you
And to follow law as it was written and ignore fact is I quote ‘abuse’”
The night took a turn for the worst when an unexpected visitor intruded

This is a solid opener - much more of a narrative feel than the verse prior and this transition works well enough that you have me interested as a reader.
“I am only basing this on the reality of man & his need for survival
The need to grow is a necessity, and to learn is more than vital..” (here I think there were extra words, the line didn't match up perfectly imho)
‘To stand the test of time, and live beyond death seems ill advised
Even with all the good that can happen, the negative will survive’
“We cannot omit the fact these creatures have the ability to reproduce
And with the natural ability to learn they could seize the clues..”
‘Be that as it may, but to learn of destruction will leave a mark long after them.
To build upon that is a blueprint and that is where ‘wrath’ begins’
‘If that happens then they are left with the choice to document action
To become wise, a force, a society of nobility if they were to avoid obvious passions’
‘Give them knowledge; if society was chaos tomorrow, knowledge is exempt!’
“In defense, the desire to learn is beyond any of our other promised attempts.”
We were born under a light, a light that guided us to all walks of life
We watched as each sprout was given the gift of life, it lived, it died…
It would give then strive. From the animals from the deepest end of the ocean
To the mountains... to the first human with their sense of emotions
Now we witness the need to learn from one’s mistakes, build a system for growth
It stands against what we once believed in, but it is a small glimpse of ‘Hope’
“Life for man will continue as planned… but his memories shall live on
I find it obscure for you to debate my very strength in this argument…’

I think at this point the direction of the verse, to me, seemed a little muddied. I wasn't sure at this point where we are going and what the goal of the verse is - I also think that in terms of consistency in the verse there was a slight faltering in the lines leading up to this point.
‘It’s odd enough trying to grasp the idea that you think they deserve chances
They should be born perfect! I will take no other under any circumstances…’
“Don’t be foolish! For me to even seek your council in this was beyond reasonable
We shall proceed as Death has found fit. Welcome Eternity to do all that is redeemable” This line was good but you created another nail to be hammered with "found fit" because it was a strong sound in the reading and alliteration so me as the reader I'd have liked to have seen this compounded with the scheme rather than cast aside. It builds momentum and if that momentum is lost it doesn't necessarily "hurt" the verse but stops it from really reaching the climax it could as the verse and its schemes build to the eventual end. Sure, it's more work and more difficult but the end result is well worth the work.
‘I am honored. It is a blessing to carry on the lead in this quest for knowledge here is where you could have repeated found fit's rhyme element for another line - as well as the next one I can see though I only looked at the end rhyme currently since I stopped to comment here. What I mean is literally just tacking on the extra element and expanding your multi from 2 to 4 etc)
For the Life of Man will be remembered beyond Death, To continue beyond Time in homage here again, as I mentioned
to be taught, to understand the capabilities we have placed in their hands earnestly
they will be molded perfectly, & their footsteps will echo throughout Eternity…”
With that final statement we stood in silence under the light post where Time rested
Where Life ended, and I buried all of the hope for humanity until tonight’s message
Through the articulation of the mind they acquired the writings on the wall
Soon they will develop the ability to form speech in which will be defining them all
At last… the battle on what to do with Time is resolved

I think this was a very solid verse, it worked well for the most part and aside from the little lull I pointed out toward the middle it was pretty solid and consistent throughout. I think this was much more "orthodox" for a topical verse in terms of style, pacing etc. It seemed like what I was expecting to read, basically. It didn't drop the ball but it also didn't go for anything truly spectacular - the compounding scheme technique I tried to illustrate would have really improved my reading of it at least if done properly. You should always be keenly aware when you create phrases, even accidentally, that beg to become part of the rhyme scheme. You can integrate them with a little bit of balancing - it's more difficult to get the lines right when you're adding extra, unexpected syllables but the reader gets a satisfying twist out of it because they don't conscious expect the scheme to expand itself and become more in such a natural manner. Now, I am not suggesting you always just tack on extra words to a rhyme phrase but there are key phrases you create such as, in this case: "found fit." This was a perfect example because where it fell in the line gave it emphasis, the alliteration gave it emphasis and the words themselves were already strong. This phrase stood out - a nail to be hammered, as I phrased it. This was a solid verse all around, as I said I feel it did what it was supposed to more or less and didn't really surprise me in any way but it was still solid.

Now, in summation:

Both verses did some things very well while lacking in other areas. I think Unborn took a MUCH bigger risk and did something DIFFERENT which gets him big props from me, he also reached for more. He really tried to establish a footing in schemes larger than his norm - I say this having never read another verse by him but I could tell just in reading this one that this verse was an attempt to push beyond his normal boundary. Buddha, that is fucking AWESOME. That is how you grow and continue to grow - always write to reach for more, there is no limit to what you might achieve if you allow yourself to always push harder and further. Mr. J brought a more orthodox verse as I had stated, more of what I was expecting and I felt he was less taxed in writing it. It felt like more of a cruise control verse, not pushing nearly as much as a percentage of his baseline but still coming with a strong result because of technical skill. This was an interesting battle in that way and Unborn almost overcame that hurdle with his approach but some small missteps and inconsistencies in phrasing and scheme usage made it a little more difficult to vote for. I think both writers proved they have skill, Unborn I felt did something less in his comfort zone where I felt Mr. J did "more of the same" for his norm having never read another piece by either writer being so new here.

Solid verses. Anyway, a vote must be made and I felt that while Mr. J didn't exhibit anything that truly pushed his verse into the stratosphere at any point he brought the more clean and somewhat more effective verse which tried for less but in the end did enough to hold me as a reader and to overcome the little holes in Buddha's verse. Buddha, I think if you keep trying to push as you evidently did in this verse you will be a true terror of topical territory.

MVGT - Mr. J

also Buddha look through your verse, I made some in quote notations in () parenthetic brackets but I see they're much less notable. Keep an eye out and take a look at my comments therein.