do you consider Lil Wayne southern rap?

[oats]

was talking with a friend this weekend, and he was saying his favorite southern MC was Lil Wayne, and I know he's technically from Louisiana, but for whatever reason (his style/sound, I guess) I never really considered him "southern rap." am I being dumb?

[Useless]

Yeah he's def southern rap

[Certain]

What kind of question is this?

[oats]

lol it's a pretty straightforward question. and like I said, I may just be dumb, but when I think "southern rap," Lil Wayne does not come to mind. IE I immediately think Outkast, Scarface, Luda, etc, whereas I've always put Wayne in his own, amorphous category.

so apparently I'll change my question: how unreasonable am I being to think like this?

[ill nik-A]

Ummmm yea

[oats]

OK GUYS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T LISTEN TO SOUTHERN RAP.

but here's what I mean. Eminem is from Detroit - the midwest. Do you consider him a midwestern rapper in the same way Nelly and the St. Lunatics are? Are Pitbull and T-Pain southern rappers in the same way Ludacris and TI are? IE, the type of music they make, not just the geography from which they come.

Or am I just this stupid, which is certainly a possibility.

[Ghost1]

I literally had this exact convo w a friend years ago

I was like.......yea....he's from the south an all but that's an east coast style that he's proposing

This was back wen the carter dropped around same time as the franchise boys an the majority of popular southern rappers were all making line dance songs an weezy was dropping intricate schemes that'd make rakim smile.

[oats]

thank you, Bags. take this rep.

for what it's worth, I'm still not sold that he is or isn't southern rap stylistically, since that's not an area I'm knowledgable about. just don't think it's as simple as where he's from

[Certain]

T.I. is more stylistically similar to New York rappers than Lil Wayne, though. Scarface is more than either of them.

[oats]

yes and no - and again, I haven't listened to a TON of TI - I think he's obviously influenced by the east coast lyrically, but his production and actual accent make me think southern rap immediately when I hear him. he's more like the south's take on an east coast MC, imo. There's just not a whole lot I find to be southern about Wayne's style. I wouldn't pin him to another region, though; he has his own unique style.

[Certain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjL-3Rlwh8U

Lil Wayne's verse:

No one on the corner has swagger like moi
Chu'ch
But I'm too clean for the choir
I require, what I desire
I got stripes: A-di-das
Mamis scream, "¡Papi, no mas!"
Run up in your shit, just me, no mas
Runnin' this shit like I got four thighs
No one has swagger like these four guys
Now when it comes to styles, I got several
Sharper than the swag or dagger all metal
And my jewels blue and yellow
The type of shit that make 'em call you Carmelo
Rules as follows stay true to the ghetto
Write your name on the bullet, make you feel special
Ha, what the fuck you boys talkin' about
I know it's us cause we the only thing to talk about

T.I.'s verse:

You can go see Weezy for the wordplay, Jeezy for the bird play
Kanyeezy for diversity, and me for controversy
All my verses picture perfect, only spit to serve a purpose
You ain't livin' what you kickin' then you worthless
Looking from the surface it may seem like I got reason to be nervous
Then observe my work to see that my adversity was worth it
Verses autobiographical, absolutely classical
Last thing I'm worried about is what another rapper do
Ain't nobody hot as me
Even if they rap they ass off, blast off and have outstanding quality
Sell a lotta records, I'll respect it and salute that
But spitting real life on hot beats I'm the truth at
You kick it like me, no exaggeration necessary
Livin' revolutionary, nothin' less than legendary
Gangsta shit hereditary, got it from my dad
Flow colder than February with extraordinary swag

[oats]

I think he's obviously influenced by the east coast lyrically, but his production and actual accent make me think southern rap immediately when I hear him.


I'll say this though, since you're a smart, articulate dude who knows a shit ton more about music than I do Certain, who would you say embodies southern rap? from there, I can listen to more Wayne and form a better opinion.

[Certain]

I'm just not about the idea that complex lyricism is an East Coast thing. And I say that as a New York native.

The South's greatest rappers are Scarface, Andre 3000 and Bun B —all absolutely great lyricists with complexity on the same level as their Northeast and West Coast counterparts. T.I., Ludacris, Lil Wayne, Chamillionaire and more followed right in their footsteps. Now there's Big KRIT and Jay Electronica.

Obviously, the South also produced Master P and Dem Franchize Boyz. But the Northeast produced Diddy.

Being a Southern rapper means you're a rapper from the South. That's it.

[Ghost1]

There's a difference between a big krit track an a weezy cut tho

Big krit SCREAMS south to me. From the beats to the subject content to the southern twang. I mean it just FEELS southern everything about it.

[ill nik-A]

TI bodied that song

[oats]

fair enough, though I don't agree. I think there are sonic differences regionally that matter more to me when categorizing people (IE Dr. Dre vs. Premo vs. Timbaland), and I definitely think complex lyricism started in NY and is thus a defining feature of east coast rap (though it can certainly be argued that it only originated there because the entire genre did + NYC has always been an artistic hub in general). like, no one would ever hear Biggie and think "hmm, I wonder which part of America he's from?" Same with Snoop and Scarface. but Wayne is kinda anyone's guess cuz he's all over the map in terms of his sound.

whatever, I've probably put way more thought into this than it deserves. at least Bags makes me know I'm not retarded, which is weird to think lol

[Ghost1]

Wen u identify w bags u have gone full retard

[oats]

good god. next thing I know I'll be understanding uh-oh's political leanings and thinking Cronus is a down-to-earth cool guy. logging off of NC for a while

[uh-oh]

oats if you need any lessons in my political leanings HOLLA

but i see what you are saying. personally i thought the carter waynes were good, but i appreciated him more when he was a young hooligan over shitty manny fresh beats. that is much more of an embodiment of a southern rapper imo, it was also before i tried making music, and before i let elitism into my brain to poison my views on music instead of just appreciating it for what it is.

its not only how he writes that made him seem like he wasnt the prototypical southern rapper, but also the production. the carters and other random shit he's done has heavily featured production similar to east coast and even midwest soulful sampled shit, bangers etc. where as people like ti have had those too, they still will give you the thumping 808 music and shit

that said so does wayne. but its usually other peoples beats with the exception of his super hits like a milli and the like. on mixtapes he frequents southern bangers though hearkening back to his grimey new orleans roots

which leads me to another new orleans rapper briefly mentioned

jay electronica. i wouldve never known he was a southern rapper if he didnt mention being from new orleans. he's honestly the most refreshing stylistically in at least the last decade, his intricate flows over ridiculous NY beats is the breath of fresh air hip hop needs.

nothing about him is southern rap except the fact he's from the south.

i think oats is perfectly fine in this assessment and certain is just playing the overly knowledgable card.

all throughout the history of music regions have developed "sounds". when listening to soul music for example there were distinct regions with distinct sounds (mainly from the studio musicians and producers involved) from muscle shoals in the south to the stax sound of memphis to motown in detroit, chicago soul etc. all had distinct sounds within the genre

same with hip hop. lil wayne definitively ventures from the south sound. as does scarface and others. but oats is on point.

now lets talk about abolishing 98 percent of the government

[Witty]

TI bodied that song

This.

Tho I'm of the opinion that TI bodies most collabs he's on, and is in general one of the best rappers out there.

Dude's crazy.

[The Dead Poet]

I'm just not about the idea that complex lyricism is an East Coast thing. And I say that as a New York native.

The South's greatest rappers are Scarface, Andre 3000 and Bun B —all absolutely great lyricists with complexity on the same level as their Northeast and West Coast counterparts. T.I., Ludacris, Lil Wayne, Chamillionaire and more followed right in their footsteps. Now there's Big KRIT and Jay Electronica.

Obviously, the South also produced Master P and Dem Franchize Boyz. But the Northeast produced Diddy.

Being a Southern rapper means you're a rapper from the South. That's it.

Master P made Ghetto D & TRU 2 Da Game if you are in any way attempting throw shade at his career then, fuck you bro hahaha.

[Certain]

Southern rap to me is OutKast and Scarface and UGK. That's all I'm saying.

Also, uh-oh's point about early Lil Wayne is important. Lil Wayne from Lights Out and 500 Degreez is so different from Lil Wayne from The Carter 3 and Dedication 2.

[Certain]

Also, listen to Lil Wayne's latest album, ColleGrove (with 2 Chainz), and tell me that's not Southern.

[Ghost1]

his newer shit is a far cry from his squad up and carter stuff tho

[Inno]

So basically this whole thread is.

If southern rappers rap with an intellect its obvious up north influence lol

No wonder TI IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, LOOK HE USED ELEQUENT AND FIGURATIVE AND CONTEMPLATION IN HIS RAP, HE OBSLY GOT HIS STYLE FROM NY.,


Thats all i see in this thread.

Stfu nerds


Come on man.

[Ghost1]

I think the point is that ti and lil wayne r rarities in that respect to southern rap

Which is where the discussion comes into play


U FUCKA MOWRUN

[Inno]

Actually its not.

Big krit raps like that, but his accent is so thick most poeple dont see it.


Lets see.

how bout andre 300, yall gon sit here and tell me this cat aint southern?

[Dope girl]

HE.LOOK LIKE HOOD AND WILD GUY
HE'S AMAZING THO

[Ghost1]

Actually its not.

Big krit raps like that, but his accent is so thick most poeple dont see it.


Lets see.

how bout andre 300, yall gon sit here and tell me this cat aint southern?

Krit an Andre were already mentioned


And also an awesome distinction of southern rappers as opposed to the music TI and wayne make

From the accents to the production to the subject matter there's a vast difference

Rhyme complexity is not the only difference

[Inno]

Krit an Andre were already mentioned


And also an awesome distinction of southern rappers as opposed to the music TI and wayne make

From the accents to the production to the subject matter there's a vast difference

Rhyme complexity is not the only difference


wors i feel you on this right here. I see your point.

It just feels like everytime a southern rapper doesnt rap like hes from the south its an automatic indication that hes not southern. Thats what erks me.

i feel you tho.

I ve had to much to drink

[Ghost1]

LOL u are on certains team of this discussion

He's made some good points for ur camp


Drink on lil beardo

[Certain]

It's just weird to me that the only New Yorker in this discussion (me) is the one arguing against the idea that all smart rap is from New York.

[The Dead Poet]

calling NY rap "smart" is pretty laughable.

Phife Dawg once said "I float like gravity"

I'm sayin though.

[PancakeBrah]

Lil Wayne is not stylistically southern, at least he wasn't during his prime years.

[Inno]

calling NY rap "smart" is pretty laughable.

Phife Dawg once said "I float like gravity"

I'm sayin though.

But i was and is presented in this thread.

The very mention of TI IS ENOUGH

[Mr. J]

Well he is from the South........& he does rap...I swore this was a drunk Witty thread though

[oats]

Lil Wayne is not stylistically southern, at least he wasn't during his prime years.

this is all I'm saying. nothing to do with being "smart" or however you wanna frame it. this whole time I've been talking about style and sound, but yes, complex lyricism originated in NY. That's a pretty uncontroversial statement lol. intelligence is not regional, but sounds and style are. good talk though guys

[Certain]

this is all I'm saying. nothing to do with being "smart" or however you wanna frame it. this whole time I've been talking about style and sound, but yes, complex lyricism originated in NY. That's a pretty uncontroversial statement lol. intelligence is not regional, but sounds and style are. good talk though guys

Rap originated in New York. So do all rappers sound like New York rappers?

You're a worldly man. Imagine if they said every successful Korean company was run like a Japanese company?

[oats]

that's an illogical leap, though, to go from "rap originated in NY" to "all rappers sound like NY rappers." There are distinct style and sound differences in different regions, and when I hear Lil Wayne, he does not sound like basically anyone else who has a southern sound. To be fair, I basically only listened to him during his peak years, and I haven't heard anything from the one you mentioned earlier. I could very well be wrong, but I'm still not really convinced. What would you say are his most "southern" tracks?

The conflation of complex lyricism and intelligence is a straw man; a lot of intelligent shit can (and has been) said simply. I'm just calling a spade a spade to say that the east coast is responsible for introducing complex lyricism, but that's only one aspect of what defines the style. Biggie didn't have terribly complicated rhyme schemes, but his production and lyrical content make him an unmistakably east coast MC. Just like Snoop is unmistakably west coast, and Finny is unmistakably a textcee with a mic in need of another hobby.

Wayne is his own thing altogether, which is a compliment to his creativity more than anything. I don't think it's unreasonable to say he's a southern MC, but having made this thread, I don't think I'm being as unreasonable as I suspected I was to think otherwise.

[Mr. J]

You talking bout Wayne ha.
thinking he changed the game ha.
crew gettin fame now
but Juvenile paved the lane ha

[kannon]

I would consider Wayne a southern rapper up until right after Carter 2 came out.

It's tough to say that Fireman is anything but a southern rap song, but that's around the time he started playing around with other sounds. Between Carter 2 and Carter 3, Wayne was the most prolific he's ever been. Mixtape after mixtape. For three years. But that's when he started rocking over different sounding beats. And he was in his prime as far as style and delivery, so he was able to kind of rock across any category and still sound dope. When Carter 3 came out, it sounded like east coast style. He was trying to hold onto his "crown" of being the best rapper alive, so he started to make more universal music.

[Witty]

I hate when non hip hop fans try to tell me Lil Wayne sucks.

And it happens a lot.

[Witty]

It annoys me that finding a real hip hop fan is so difficult here.

I literally know 0.

Everyone thinks they know tho cuz they listened to 2pac: Resurrection, and watched Straight Outta Compton, twice.

[Ghost1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJy7d2zRwk4