Has lyricism plateaued?

[oats]

I was thinking about this cuz I saw some dude say that lyricism is antiquated in the hip hop landscape today, which I don't really agree with. It got me thinking though: has the art and craft of lyricism really developed at all since the mid to late 90s? Or is it basically the same as it's been since then? It's easy to draw distinctions between late 80s/early 90s lyricists and turn of the millennium - excuse me, Willennium - lyricists, but from there I think it gets kinda muddy. What do you guys think?

[Certain]

These days, the lyricism-heavy types are much heavier on rhyme schemes and much less so on unique phrasing and punchlines, etc. Examples: Earl Sweatshirt (and most of Odd Future), Jay Electronica, Royce the 5'9", new Black Thought (compare him now to him in the 1990s), Vic Mensa, Ransom, etc.

That's not to say there aren't old-school stylists around. Mick Jenkins is a great lyricist who doesn't lean on rhyming only.

[uh-oh]

i would say jay electronica is more in the unique phrasing than strictly rhyme schemes

but honestly of course it plateaued. you can't really go higher than its already been taken. you can just be unique and technical in your own right.

but its like musically it plateaued as well, everything that could be done has been done. we can change instruments, genres that are sampled from, drums no drums. but at the end of the day the format is the same. its all been done

[Certain]

but its like musically it plateaued as well, everything that could be done has been done. we can change instruments, genres that are sampled from, drums no drums. but at the end of the day the format is the same. its all been done

I'd never heard song structures like the ones Kendrick Lamar employed on Untitled, Unmastered.

As far as Jay Electronica, I guess that's fair, but everything rhymes. It used to be that guys like Q-Tip and Guru were seen as great lyricists entirely because of phrasing.

[Greed]

Lyricism has to die before it can be brought back

[2tripple0]

Eh? What does you mean?

[Untold]

Interesting topic to bring up. This exact thoughts been on my mind lately. Probably because I've started exploring the music of artists like Lil Yahty and Young Thug. I was really negative about their music/styles till I finally started giving them a chance.

Don't get me wrong, they'll never hold a candle to the Early Sweatshirt and MF Doom types but they're unique in their own way. But it had me wondering, how come having dope, understandable lyrics isn't important anymore in hip-hop?

I think cats like J. Cole and Kendrick Lamar are definitely keeping the movement alive but the competition landscape isn't even close to what it was in the mid 90's to the turn of the century. At that time you had Camp Lo on one station, Eminem on the other, while Jay Z was top 5 on TRL. Along with Pharoah Monch, Mos Def and Jadakiss getting more spins on the regular also.

Now adays, that ain't happening. It's the Trap music stuff, Thugga, Yahty, Lil Uzi Vert, etc... I think that's what stimulates this generation. And instead of hating on it I've decided to embrace it. I've grown to enjoy this movement and love to bang it out. This is what hip-hop's about. It's the urban youth expressing themselves freely and having fun. Basically what hip-hop started out as.

To go back to what someone said earlier, lyricism has to die before it can be brought back. I mean, Sugarhill Gang and Fab 5 Freddy were not the most lyrical MC's. Then it progressed into what we have today. It'll cycle back around to lyrics again. Just not sure when. By the time we'll be too old to care :/

[Certain]

Radio being fucked doesn't mean popular rap is. I'd guarantee more people listen to Chance The Rapper than Camp Lo.

[Witty]

I don't know if it has plateaued or if it's just advancing at a slower rate... lyricism is the same as any art form...as more and more people do it, and the art form gets older and older, the rate of advancement slows down.

[Ghost1]

Maybe this more for uh oh other thread...an also to the tune of certain last post but

W the incredibly easy access to "underground" hip hop it's more likely that people are going to be listening to music they downloaded and have on an ipod then it is that they put on the radio an catch a stray rap song.....an unless u live in a big city ur not gonna have a predominantly hip hop station anyways

Like who the fuck watches cable tv or listens to live radio...it's 2016....ruling those 2 outlets in my oppinion is really not that big of a deal

It's early an I'm foggy so I wasn't able to present that very well lol....but I think maybe I made my point?

To oats discussion I think i would say that with ever changing slang and constant happenings in the world day to day lyrics will never really get stale.....I mean yea u have similarities and some things that have been said before but u can always come up w new stuff....new ideas....

Plus....now towards uh oh saying the music itself has kindve run its course ....I mean........how innovative do we really want it? We still want the baseline formula in tact .....I mean shit a few rappers start using auto tune heavy singy mumble raps an uh oh loses his fucking mind because it's not what he's come to love.

Idk if that's really even a side that I'm choosing in that regard......just saying as far as the music being everything it can be.......I mean.......there's a reason for that.......there are still parameters to what rap music is.

Lyrically tho no.....I don't think we have past it's prime.......the human mind is always advancing

I love u all.

[2tripple0]

Funny right cause a lot of people say that johann sebastian bach was the real pioneer of western civilizations music and he was alive and writing shit two hundred years ago i realize a lot of people will disagree with me but a lot of people truly believe he was the real kind of innovator of music as we know it today for instance like most of the music that has been written ever since is basically based on his work qhich was written two centuries ago so if you are listening to many artists these days a lot of it was based on dudes work anyways as for lyrics i think its a bit different language can be determined in many diferent ways i dont feel lyrics are as encompassing if you will i feel like most muaical work has been done before but for me i think heres so many ways to say the same thing i just feel there are numerous differwnt styles yet to be inhibited lyrically although otoh people do say things like peoplw used to be a lot more educated as far as vocabulary and wordchoice is concerned but one could argue that people these days have many more things that people ages ago could not gain açess to so in that light i think lyricism is on another level these days and qill kèp enhancing really as time goes on but as for music its a bit different i think first of all a lot of people think they can play music but inrealiy they are miasing half the plot to music theory i mean if you do play an instrument and walkin to a rehearsal space with other musicians you should be able to be like which key minor/major and just automatically start playing and everyone should be in key and ready to play i dont think that a lot of musicians know how to do this and if they cant they arent good enough period but whatever everyone has an opinion and often they say you could be a beginner in music and still sound just as good as someone who has been playing for years so its a very back and forth position but for me it is something that needs to continue to be srudied and srudied vigerously

[Witty]

Holy shit what the fuck just happened.

[Certain]

I don't know but my man Johann just got an extra 100 years added to his life.

[Exis]

I skimmed over this drunk ways mad quick, but yeah...It's definitely plateaued...& whoever mentioned Kendrick in this thread needs more than a bullet.

[uh-oh]

Bags ur on point, i dont view plateua-ing or whatever as a negative though. I took this thread as meaning like is anyone going to show up and take it to another level. Its impossible hip hop has reached the peak of skill in every aspect with one artist or another. One guy can be the most proficient like an eminem/az/black thought you name em. No one is gonna be better at writing rhymes than them. You can only hope to be that good basically. But thats just one aspect

When im speaking musically im talking more about how the music itself is structured not the songs. So kendrick might not follow a 16 bar verse 8 bar hook, repeat, scheme. But its still hotta be structured so you can rhyme on it. 4/4 basically. Thats why no matter the speed like bpm wise you can tell something is hip hop/rap immediately. It isnt just unstructured nonsense because you have to be able to nod y I ur head, rappera need end points to there bars etc.

You can innovate around it but it will all be under the greater umbrella of hip hop. What i was beginning to get at in the other thread is we need solid sub genres to help seperate, because if i say im a fan of rock and roll that doesnt mean i listen to metallica. The same way if i tell someone i like HIP HOP i dont want them thinkjng i fuck wjth kodak black

[Ghost1]

Yea....I think we seeing eye to eye here

Although again...to an outsider wat good r sub genre labels gonna be

I couldn't differentiate or tell u a single one from rock.....like metal grunge...etc....I don't kno that id honestly be able to even sort bands under those labels





Also



2crip having the biggest troll reveal of the year today


I feel like after 2 posts from him was like watching that pool movie where the guy shoots righty the whole movie.....then last shot in the movie reveals he's actually lefty

Holy fuck me

[Certain]

uh-oh, I don't think you'd consider Death Grips hip hop, but they vaguely fall into the realm and don't do anything traditionally at all.

[uh-oh]

uh-oh, I don't think you'd consider Death Grips hip hop, but they vaguely fall into the realm and don't do anything traditionally at all.

word i can see it from the couple tracks i peeped

if i was to classify them into a subgenre i would call it techno rock rap garbage. or to put it more succinctly, trash.

[Certain]

I'm not much of a fan.

[Witty]

Death Grip is a new name to me...based on the comments I guess they aren't worth checking out?
Bags I'm saying tho...dude just got troll of the century award tho cuz I was CONVINCED.

[Witty]

Also...the fuck is wrong with Metallica?

[Certain]

Death Grip is a new name to me...based on the comments I guess they aren't worth checking out?
Bags I'm saying tho...dude just got troll of the century award tho cuz I was CONVINCED.

Listen to this. If you dislike it, you need go no further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIrKSqb4H4A

[Ghost1]

Death Grip is a new name to me...based on the comments I guess they aren't worth checking out?
Bags I'm saying tho...dude just got troll of the century award tho cuz I was CONVINCED.

U kno I never was.....until he put out the beats & the youtube vid of him freestyin.....that's wen he had me

[2tripple0]

Guess the ends dont always meet???? But for real for real i feel myself blooming today lol... thanks for keeping an integrated part of me on this site.... forever 2tripps name shall echo in the realms of netcees... i will always be here for you netcess lol

[Hush]

Guess the ends dont always meet???? But for real for real i feel myself blooming today lol... thanks for keeping an integrated part of me on this site.... forever 2tripps name shall echo in the realms of netcees... i will always be here for you netcess lol

just for some perspective I barely know who you are.
and by barely I mean dont

[Inno]

I don't think it's plateaued.

It just seems like it's not important to these new artist.

You literally can say 2 words in a song and it sells.

So if that ^^^is a possibility, and u still make money
Why try any harder? Now the soul purpose is to sell record. Coupled with this gens attitude of
Now now now I can't wait. The easy access to freemusic. I mean
So many factors. But I truly believe niggas just don't give a fuck
About lyricism anymore.

I heard on radio one of these wack ass niggas say

I don't need to spit a hot 16 to get the club jumping.
If I wanted to I could say Uhhhh on the whole track
And that shit would sell.

Some thing to that degree. That's the mentality these new rappers
Have. No respect for the art of the craft.

[2tripple0]

Yeah id like to keep it that way Hush..... i like keeping my life as private as can be... ive seen the limelight at this point id rather stay close to the people who i know believe in me.... the ones who have always been there and always will be.... im not looking for poularity or going out of my way to impress people who dont really care for me.... just the way i feel at this point.... sorry our heads never bumped before but in reality i dont want to come across overzealous because in reality i barely know nothing about any of you either... hopefully god willing we so connect on some level and in my view take what you can and move on...

[uh-oh]

honestly its not even about selling records anymore

just look at whats really dope, and like its always been its usually party records, or drunk vibe shit etc. and it correlates with performing live. look at young thug. he sells out shows and he's hopping around in a dress like a madman. even look at RIFF RAFF. his live shows are why he's big

and thats where the money is at. i mean how many hip hop heads really go out and support, granted they're out there. but how fun is a show where the dude is either focused on spitting his complex shit, or he's jumping around pausing all the time letting his hype man finish his bars because he can't perform and spit em at the same time

its more show oriented is what i'm saying, mixed with just getting views/plays like always/sales.

but its agreed there is no respect for the craft/culture

its part of why i made that other thread, seeing people go at pete rock. some young dolph character. then there are "memes" and shit of these dudes rapping so terrible and defending it, like who gives a shit. kids that never listened to a biggie song or a pac song. etc.

shit changed

[Blanco Bishop]

I'm a lyrical purist but there's so much more to music then that.

Melody, harmony and overall ambiance of a song is something all lyricists aren't great at.

So yeah...someone might not be a great lyricist but maybe they're great at melodies or harmonies and that's why the populace takes to them.

We need to appreciate all aspects of hip hop.

[Inno]

honestly its not even about selling records anymore

just look at whats really dope, and like its always been its usually party records, or drunk vibe shit etc. and it correlates with performing live. look at young thug. he sells out shows and he's hopping around in a dress like a madman. even look at RIFF RAFF. his live shows are why he's big

and thats where the money is at. i mean how many hip hop heads really go out and support, granted they're out there. but how fun is a show where the dude is either focused on spitting his complex shit, or he's jumping around pausing all the time letting his hype man finish his bars because he can't perform and spit em at the same time

its more show oriented is what i'm saying, mixed with just getting views/plays like always/sales.

but its agreed there is no respect for the craft/culture

its part of why i made that other thread, seeing people go at pete rock. some young dolph character. then there are "memes" and shit of these dudes rapping so terrible and defending it, like who gives a shit. kids that never listened to a biggie song or a pac song. etc.

shit changed


But see it is about selling records. Going on tour is just another way to sell records. That's what it takes these days. That's why people like designer are relevant. Look at this nigga a str8 rip off and still sell records. Why cu no one gives a shit. Back in the 90's even early 00 writing your own shit meant something. That's why people like black thought and mos def are classic. Didn't sell to many records but are considered legends. Now a days it's the opposite. These dudes catch heat for a max 2-3 years and disappear.

[Certain]

Black Thought sold plenty of records. Six of The Roots' albums hit the Billboard top 10.

[Inno]

How much are they selling now?

[Ghost1]

But see it is about selling records. Going on tour is just another way to sell records. That's what it takes these days. That's why people like designer are relevant. Look at this nigga a str8 rip off and still sell records. Why cu no one gives a shit. Back in the 90's even early 00 writing your own shit meant something. That's why people like black thought and mos def are classic. Didn't sell to many records but are considered legends. Now a days it's the opposite. These dudes catch heat for a max 2-3 years and disappear.

Rap/hip hop is notorious for producing short lived careers tho since it's birth...that's nothing new


Autotune an mumble rappers are just the latest passing trend in rap .....which again is not anything we haven't seen before

I will reference again....the souths line dancing movement....that shit was so bad Nas made a fuckin song called hip hop is dead lol

An yet that fad has passed and gone....everything that's being said now about the new style popularized in mainstream currently has been said about all of the other trending movements of yesterday as well.

Can we please all act like we have been here before. Sheesh

[Certain]

that shit was so bad Nas made a fuckin song called hip hop is dead lol


Produced by will.i.am, with no sense of irony.

I'd so much rather listen to Desiigner than late-2000s Black Eyed Peas.

[TYSON]

Produced by will.i.am, with no sense of irony.

I'd so much rather listen to Desiigner than late-2000s Black Eyed Peas.

Lol damn.

[Exis]

Lol @ 2simple...need to log off & get outwards more, reading your shit wrecks my high.

[2tripple0]

U kno I never was.....until he put out the beats & the youtube vid of him freestyin.....that's wen he had me

I might upload music tomorrow be sure check em out I'm going to go make a thread in audio forum let the forum live I'll try and bring it back hip left for a bit

[2tripple0]

But your right music is hard work too hard he'd have trouble it's difficult

-000

[Split Eight]

to OP's question: no. see Chance the Rapper

[The Dead Poet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLqiRXg6X1U

[Aero]

I mostly listen to hip hop on the radio or I'll buy a Drake album too. Don't have time to listen to these other people.

[Hearder Hearder]

I mostly listen to hip hop on the radio or I'll buy a Drake album too. Don't have time to listen to these other people.

Explains your bar quality

[Aero]

Explains your bar quality

Yea I guess it does explain me being HOF on 2 sites, winning tag tourney and site diss competition.


Btw I don't rap I'm a dancer.

[Hearder Hearder]

You're a cool dude so I'll take your word for it but I haven't seen any of this

[Aero]

You're a cool dude so I'll take your word for it but I haven't seen any of this

Boyyyyy what? I don't say I'm the GOAT for no reason

This a site diss

http://www.netcees.org/showthread.php?t=8257&highlight=Aero+detour


That was LIGHT. Bout to make another site diss, you can either be apart or be a part in it. You choose, aiming for jugulars.

[Ghost1]

Diode RESPOND LIKE A MAN

[Pakistani Hand Cannon]

no it hasnt

i still rhyme every now & then.