Low level atheists

[Mael]

I suggest you stop posting threads immediately. Ironically, that goes for low level theists like Veritas, who's doing an embarrassing job of proving nothing but his intellectual incompetence.

I'd suggest if you're going to have debates regarding religion, you at least try to get familiar with common arguments for/against the existence of God, summed up pretty well on Wikipedia. Better yet, join a philosophical forum and browse the religion sections.

Diode, the image you posted is a classic unsophisticated atheist attempt at proving the absurdity of intelligent design. Reminds me of the kid's game "which image does not belong?". You're shooting yourself in your own foot when you reverse the logic you're proposing; i.e, There exists a universe, in this universe is a galaxy, in this galaxy is a solar system, in this solar system are 9 planets, on one of these planets is a 30 year old man dressed as up as a purple dinosaur singing "I love you, you love me" with a bunch of miniature humans. The logic is now reversed to examine the absurdity of the human life, and why is seems to arise out of nothing.

If you want to debate a well-versed theist, come at me, bro. Or anyone else for that matter, if not, please stop making a complete fool of yourself. I've got David Hume's Induction fallacy and Ockham's chainsaw in the bag.

[Destroyer]

the burden of proof rests with the believer, homie
so, have at it.
I'll wait

[veritas]

yeah, all I have done is make the complex simple and ask questions that they can't answer.


carry on. ego +1

[Frank Metts]

" Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals. " Dr. Martin Luther King

[Dope girl]

smh @ this thread!

[Diode]

There was nothing atheist about my post. Learn 2 reading comprehend amg lol.

It may have offended a fundamentalist Christian, however.

Further, you used a fallacy in the main context of your argument above. Hi5.

[Mael]

the burden of proof rests with the believer, homie
so, have at it.
I'll wait

The believer believes by faith. If evidence was provided that God exists, faith would be negated and rendered useless. But then again, we're assuming our cognitive apparatus isn't meddling with how we perceive reality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_spectrum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Not to mention, by the way, that everything is based on faith. You thinking you'll wake up tomorrow is based on faith - it's based on nothing. You have absolutely zero evidence or proof that you'll wake up tomorrow. What you would do in an attempt to convince me you'll wake up tomorrow is show me data you collected from the past of you waking up every morning since you were born and then provide probability of what would happen tomorrow. Sadly, this, along with everything that has ever happened in the history of existence and all our predictions about the future fall prey to Hume's Problem of induction -

"Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the principle uniformity of nature."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

The burden of proof lies with the atheist because you have to disprove the existence of God, and if you were any good at it, we'd all be atheists by now, wouldn't we? Some things aren't suppose to be based on evidence, or science. Somethings are based on emotions, feelings.

[Diode]

Arguing science with philosophy.

Every college student's wet dream.

[Mael]

Diode

You don't even know what science is, brah.

[Mael]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science

Also, arguments against God are not scientific at all. Nothing about science disproves the existence of God. So I'm not arguing science, I'm arguing people failing to use science as proof of his non-existence.

[dead man]

http://www.durt.info/2011Summer/texts/Husserl,%20Edmund%201970%20The%20Crisis%20of%20Eur opean%20Sciences%20and%20Transcendental%20Phenomen ology%20(excerpts,%20translation%20by%20David%20Ca rr).pdf

[Mael]

dead man

Concerning Mathematical universes, I posted this recently:
http://www.netcees.co/showpost.php?p=187827&postcount=79

[Destroyer]

hey mael
there may be a god, I doubt it, but let's say there is
why would he give a fuck about you or I?

[Mael]

hey mael
there may be a god, I doubt it, but let's say there is
why would he give a fuck about you or I?

According to Christianity, He died for everyone, but I won't go into that in detail. I suppose you've heard the story a million times.

Let's assume you're correct, there is no God. Well, interesting fact - your Godless world is hell. Sure, you may call it life, you may have the time of day to do things that include sipping wine and having your friends over for a BBQ where they laugh at your witty one-liners, things categorized as pleasure, but to some people this is a living, breathing hell filled with nothing but pain, misery and suffering. Some people, believe it or not, are literally brought out of nothingness just to get raped and tortured daily till they die at the age of 10. Is that fair?

Now, you say God doesn't exist, but atheism pushes the idea of hell. The theistic hell, at least, doesn't contain children because their too young to be accountable for their actions. But look at your atheistic world, it's filled with kids in pain you couldn't handle with a dose of steroids. What did they do to deserve that? Were they told of the suffering they would endure?

So why is it hard for you atheists to grasp the idea of Hell? I love the Eskimo argument; "Eskimos didn't hear about Jesus, would they go to hell?" - Yes. Just as people are thrown into this world without their knowledge just to burn and die, literally. What on earth could you possibly argue about your existence in Hell? That is isn't "fair"? That it's "unethical"?

If God exists, it ends with him. Justice is served. The imbalances of life are realigned in the afterlife.

[Diode]

atheism pushes the idea of hell

So we're just making things up now.

Mael, you don't happen to be in your early 20s, do you?

[Greed]

All eskimos going to hell is what mael has taught me.

[Mael]

So we're just making things up now.

Mael, you don't happen to be in your early 20s, do you?

I stated in the age thread that I was 22, why? That changes nothing.

If you actually read my post in context, you'd know I wasn't talking about the theistic idea of Hell, i.e. burning furnace, demons etc. I was talking about hell in the sense of despair, a lack of truth, an overall feeling of pointlessness and absurdity through pain.

At least in theological ideas of Hell;

1) You know why you're there
2) Children aren't there because they aren't accountable for their actions

Nature, on the other hand.

[Diode]

I stated in the age thread that I was 22, why? That changes nothing.

If you actually read my post in context, you'd know I wasn't talking about the theistic idea of Hell, i.e. burning furnace, demons etc. I was talking about hell in the sense of despair, a lack of truth, an overall feeling of pointlessness and absurdity through pain.

At least in theological ideas of Hell;

1) You know why you're there
2) Children aren't there because they aren't accountable for their actions

Nature, on the other hand.

You are stating as fact that atheists struggle with the idea that there is suffering in the world.

Ergo, you are making things up.

Also, yes, your age has absolutely everything to do with your perspective ITT.

[Mael]

All eskimos going to hell is what mael has taught me.

There is no fairness in this reality. Why on earth would you think nihilism should save you from the reoccurring nightmare?

Nihilism is atheism's version of wishful thinking. Good luck with that.

[Greed]

Dare I ask your thoughts on other religions aside from christianity?

[Diode]

There is no fairness in this reality. Why on earth would you think nihilism should save you from the reoccurring nightmare?

Nihilism is atheism's version of wishful thinking. Good luck with that.

Who said reality has to be fair?

Here, let me pull a "you":

Theists' commitment to religion is entirely predicated on their desire for justice and morality in the world.

[Mael]

Who said reality has to be fair?

Here, let me pull a "you":

Theists' commitment to religion is entirely predicated on their desire for justice and morality in the world.

It isn't, and that's thanks to free-will. If life were fair, then freedom goes out the window. Let's hope you can see the connection there.

And you're wrong. His existence just happens to resolve many of the underlying problems we see in reality, one of which is a lack of true justice.

For the record, I subscribe to no religion. I simply believe in God.

[DLB]

religious debates cant happen for this exact reason

ppl question ur god & u bitch about it

show some factual proof a god exists or continue to believe what u want & others will do the same

[Mael]

@Q

I'm not bitching about shit. The point of my thread was exactly it's title, people bringing up arguments for the non-existence of God that belong in preschool debates. That's all.

If you believe or don't believe in God, I don't give a fuck tbh. But I'll give you a run for your money in an argument.

BTW Diode

I understand your question. It's seems to be a variation of questions regarding the inherent/axiomatic state; i.e. Why should we assume there is something rather than nothing, or, why should we assume a state of order is greater than a state of chaos, why is X preferred over Y.. etc.

[Diode]

It isn't, and that's thanks to free-will. If life were fair, then freedom goes out the window. Let's hope you can see the connection there.

And you're wrong. His existence just happens to resolve many of the underlying problems we see in reality, one of which is a lack of true justice.

For the record, I subscribe to no religion. I simply believe in God.

I don't see a lack of true justice as a problem and your characterization that all atheists see it as a problem that needs resolution is false.

Not an atheist myself, by the way.

[DLB]

it seems u are hurt at the argument tbh

im agnostic, what are ur thoughts

[Mael]

I don't see a lack of true justice as a problem and your characterization that all atheists see it as a problem that needs resolution is false.

Not an atheist myself, by the way.

Actually, atheists not seeing it as a problem is a problem. Let's suppose you have a daughter. A man rapes her, he never gets caught. I mean, I suppose time would heal those wounds, but do you owe it to your daughter to bring her justice? Idk, that's on you. You don't really know what justice is until you're the one getting the other end of the stick. Death isn't the great equalizer, it's a pussy's escape from consequence. At least that's what they think.

Honestly, this could be the matrix. Simulated reality is a serious theory of inquiry, and if you've heard of the "space-time crystal computer", a theory by;

Nobel laureate Frank Wilczek, a theoretical physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology
http://usahitman.com/atccoeu/

This being a computer simulation isn't completely absurd, even plausible. So my idea of God could simply be the creator of this system, who knows?

it seems u are hurt at the argument tbh

im agnostic, what are ur thoughts

Nah, I ain't hurt at all tbh.

I can't dictate what you believe in. So there's not much I can say. Probably the safest place to be because you're not getting shit from atheism all the time.

[Diode]

It is a problem for you. It is not a problem for everyone. It is especially not a problem for atheists who certainly do not believe in hell, despite your willingness to deem otherwise.

[Objective]

It's boring to begin with. I mean. We can't even be sure if there's a floating chair that goes through my body at this exact moment, or that we know absolutely everything, we just need to be reminded about them etc!

You know what. These debates bore the shit out of me on Netcees, nobody says nothing new that hasn't already been thoroughly examined. And if you aren't reading up on philosophy, or psychology for that matter, there's nothing interesting to discuss either tbh. Joining a philosophy forums circlejerk isn't helping much either unless you know what the fuck they're talking about.

Dare I ask your thoughts on other religions aside from christianity

It's not a secret that it's a defense mechanism people use to cope with death.

[Greed]

Christianity, to me, is a book of reasons why one should act a certain way, with jesus being the martyr that made it worth reading.

Jesuse kicked it with hookers and they can make anything happen. Explains the followers, and also explains the resurrection. That many devout followers can push the cause after death.

That's just me though.

Jesus was a jew, this should also be discussed.

[veritas]

if you say you believe in God, that at best qualifies you to be devil....just saying.

[Split]

Diode is one dumb nigger

[Geno]

666

[Fart]

Worst thread of november award

[Greed]

A drastic turn.

[Diode]

Diode is one dumb nigger

TEENAGERS AND TWENTY YEAR OLDS ARE SO CLEVER

AMG HIT ME WITH MORE UNNECESSARILY VERBOSE VOCABULARY MULTISYLLABIC RHYMES, AESOP

[Split]

why dont you YDK me a verse in nonrhyming format about how your heart is almost as broken as your penis

[Diode]

why dont you YDK me a verse in nonrhyming format about how your heart is almost as broken as your penis

lol @ nonrhyming format

i would love to see one of your failboats recorded to audio

please regale us

you are as text as text gets dude

congrats on reading my archive from my early 20s. i am married. no more for you.

[Plot]

Religion is a mind control device.
Religious people have responsibility issues and a deep desire to be subservient.

[Scripter]

" Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals. " Dr. Martin Luther King

Religion in my opinion is nothing more then a form of government, which means to restrict...
Religion is man made....

[Split]

lol @ nonrhyming format

i would love to see one of your failboats recorded to audio

please regale us

you are as text as text gets dude

congrats on reading my archive from my early 20s. i am married. no more for you.

i can still beat u in a match, tho

[Witty]

Diode, the image you posted is a classic unsophisticated atheist attempt at proving the absurdity of intelligent design. Reminds me of the kid's game "which image does not belong?".

No, it was a joke.

And quite a funny joke too btw.

Until it was ruined.

[Frank Metts]

Religion in my opinion is nothing more then a form of government, which means to restrict...
Religion is man made....

Religions use to be mob like gangs ... Follow us or die, defy us and get stoned, decapitated or crucified in the name of OUR lord type shit ... Not just the Jesus was crucified story, many men were embarrassed in that sense but they really never used crosses just stakes, the cross, some think was a man made addition to the Jesus story other believe it to be 100% true.

It's funny back then health wasn't a top bill for everyone, in some of the story of Abraham he and his wife live to be almost 200, he cheated on his wife and them his mistress became jealous, his son born out of wedlock was a bad kid etc etc ... Infidelity is bad , see where this is going?

It's a guide in some senses to decypher good from bad. Abraham just happens to be a part is islams, Jewish and Christian faith lol

[Mael]

Frank Metts Scripter

To me, religion and theism are not the same thing. I'm not religious, I don't hold any absolute moral beliefs and I'm clearly not a person who's ethically sound.

The reason I believe in God is because I figured he's the lesser of two evils. It's either you believe the Universe came from nothing, which to me is absolutely incomprehensibly stupid - OR, that there exists this thing of a nature we cannot understand that had always existed - a background, underlying, axiomatic system. Science doesn't want to admit that the Zero-point field is a cleverly disguised goosestep from the fact that it's either one or the other, but then again, people need something to lean on.

There is more basis of reason and a higher probability that your entire generation of dead relatives will rise from the dead tomorrow then there is a complex Universe arising out of the fabric of the void's non-existing baseless paradigm of nothingness.

[veritas]

you are a devil basically.

[Mael]

The Mind Assassin

I can't call myself a Christian because there's a whole bunch of baggage that comes with it. People have a preconception of what I believe, my motives and worst - they expect me to act a certain way that mirrors the life of Christ. I can't do that, straight up. I also see horrendous hypocrisy in the church, so if I'm going to believe in God I'll keep my relationship with Him personal.

I know what you're thinking. It's not about me, it's about Him. Try convincing the billions of atheists and non-Christians with that one, buddy.

[veritas]

lolzord...that wasnt what I was thinking at all.....

[veritas]

JAMES 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.




admitting we can never live like Christ did is the start homey. And thus the realization of just how bad we are...and how much we need him.

as for church I feel you. I personally hate what church has become, but you should find one where you can actually learn that espouses doctrine. we are commanded not to forsake the gathering together.....but I also know that alot of what is called church is worse than the bars.

Christianity is a fellowship, not a religion. True Chrisitianity is blameless.

[Ryan 12]

High lvl theist/atheist

Low lvl human/overall person

[veritas]

thats the point....

because only the close to God know how far they are.

rofllfllzllelazllzzz

[Scripter]

Frank Metts Scripter

To me, religion and theism are not the same thing. I'm not religious, I don't hold any absolute moral beliefs and I'm clearly not a person who's ethically sound.

The reason I believe in God is because I figured he's the lesser of two evils. It's either you believe the Universe came from nothing, which to me is absolutely incomprehensibly stupid - OR, that there exists this thing of a nature we cannot understand that had always existed - a background, underlying, axiomatic system. Science doesn't want to admit that the Zero-point field is a cleverly disguised goosestep from the fact that it's either one or the other, but then again, people need something to lean on.

There is more basis of reason and a higher probability that your entire generation of dead relatives will rise from the dead tomorrow then there is a complex Universe arising out of the fabric of the void's non-existing baseless paradigm of nothingness.


Even Eisenstein believed in God

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpyiLNy3lig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKt9EgENzGI

[Diode]

i can still beat u in a match, tho

depends on who votes.

[Witty]

The bible is a book of morals and oral history, it contains a lot of truth but i don't think it is THE truth, you can be a good moral person and not believe in what the bible says. It is also a work of art and one of the greatest books ever written by mankind, but that kinda gets ignored. It is full of superstition of the times because it was written by the people of those times, we are of more advanced times and know a lot of those superstitions and beliefs to be untrue, I find it hard to understand why people choose to ignore that, I hope there is a God but if there is I highly doubt he would be the one from the bible, or any other religious book...there are hundreds of religions that say ONLY they are right, but only one can be.

@Veritas if you were born in Afghanistan what religion would you be?

Does God love the Western World more and only they get to know because they are better?

What about relatively unknown tribes who know nothing of Christianity...they don't get a chance to go to heaven because of where they happened to be born?

Or do we create these things because we know there is something that we still haven't explained so really all of the worlds religions are just trying to find an explanation for the mystery that is our existence and the existence of the universe itself?

[Mael]

@Veritas if you were born in Afghanistan what religion would you be?

If you were born in the early 15th century, what scientific theory of gravity would you subscribe to? Oh wait, that's right - those theories (general relativity, string theory, entropic gravity, quantum gravity etc.) didn't even exist yet.

The genetic fallacy, also known as fallacy of origins, fallacy of virtue,[1] is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

Like I said in the OP, step your game up before you spew ns, bro.

[Mael]

Better yet, if you were born in 300 BC you'd still believe the earth was flat because at the time that was mainstream science.

[Witty]

Better yet, in you were born in 300 BC you'd still believe the earth was flat because at the time that was mainstream science.

Yeah? And you would be wrong...I don't understand your point.

What I am saying is that not all religions can be correct, the religion you believe usually is dictated by where you live, so why has god chosen to spread his message in one place but not others?

Why do some people know about him but others don't if he is god and is everywhere?

Your argument was 'if you were born here you would have believed this'

Which is exactly my point, what we believe is dictated by where we live and when we live, and it is not necessarily the truth just because it happens to be believed there and then.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[uh-oh]

lol at the mael fael tag

but yo atheists are just as dumb as religious people in my eyes.

and so are agnostics and everyone. I am everything

[Mael]

Why would I agree with you and then post a quote and link to the genetic fallacy? Did you not catch how I was rivaling the simplicity of your logic? (As I did with Diode's)

MY point was that if we're going to take your road of reasoning, then everything we are is thus a result of our immediate external environment, e.g. All Irishmen are Catholics, which is clearly false, hence the quote and link. To some extent, however, we can use that logic, but it's nothing concrete. Choice birthed from freewill influenced by common-sense, skepticism, intuition and rebellion makes your argument invalid.

Why do some people know about him but others don't if he is god and is everywhere?

I've heard of stories of rural tribes in Papua New Guinea who have zero contact with the outside world, have never been visited by missionaries, but speak of a man of the son of God they now worship after years of witchcraft and cannibalism.

Which is exactly my point, what we believe is dictated by where we live and when we live

Yes and no. Thanks to skepticism, people attempt to influence the external world through internal analysis. E.g. your family is Muslim, you have doubts, you become an atheist - what you believe, is therefore, not dictated by "where we live and when we live" as you simply put.

[Mael]

I don't believe those stories though.