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View Full Version : ROUND TWO: (1)dead man vs. (17)Witty - (DEAD MAN WINS 5-0)


PancakeBrah
01-19-2014, 10:40 PM
The Winter Topical
dead man Witty

Verse Deadline: 1/24/2014,11:59 Pacific
Voting Deadline: 1/27/2014 (4 Votes Required)
Line Min/Max: 16/48
Extension/Line Extension by request. Must be agreed to.

Topic
“Justice?—You get justice in the next world, in this world you have the law."
-William Gaddis

Good luck to both.

dead man
01-23-2014, 09:33 PM
i want to fly

like pigeon or dove. god's wisdom and love
prism and sun, symbols for something that we've never become
benevolent One. searching for a method to rise
repressing the drive instead to let it fester inside
since that first step, i've over-intellectualized
myself into a quasi philosophical bind -
if dreams are deja vu in a pretentious disguise
i've had a premonition. wings caressing the skies
finger feathering Gaia. slow jam climaxing a quake
orgasm. the twitch. chasmic eclipse. a planet of apes
self-hating mammal on a molecular basis
restricted from destiny via skeletal shape
uncomfortable state. close to claustrophobia's knife
overdosing on tryptophan and daydreaming a life
it's like - daily the optimism, nightly the crisis
a shallow hearted falcon with a piloting license
adrenaline for the nightshift. a pint for the train
balloons to hold tightly when they're tied to a flame
dreams, our sole possessions. nothing earned or obtained
mysticism's for the birds, as they say..
but nothing that can justify or truly explain
exists inside a box of preconceptions arranged
bums collect change while doctors lecture in chains
prisoners of other's observations and statements
lives wasted. i will fly. i mean.. i've felt it, so visceral
like three dimensional cinema. widescreen sensory visual
push the envelope. make it real. you're labeled a criminal
possibility is free. laws are belted to principle
it's so simple post-ripple. passing temporal waves
create textbook pages, history makes emperors famous.
academic persuasion mirrors theological strategy
sodomizing free spirited to posit insanity
i will rise, above catastrophe. omniscience of faculty
their critical analyses. the law that is gravity -
i will rise. experiencing that moment of ecstasy
a stolen encounter with our inherent telepathy
one day, we all die and set it free .. winged beast,
defying all belief in science, every time i fall asleep.





DEADMAN

Witty
01-26-2014, 02:57 AM
What is just to one man, will be unjust to another.

I'm captivated, my line of sight saturated in blinding light
Shining white, I'm fascinated yet encapsulated - I try to fight
Exasperated, tired from a journey I don't recall, cold and small
As rodents crawl at my feet, toes frozen, body broken - sprawled
Across the marble street, stained with blood and charred with heat
My heart defeated, the love that charged the beats lays starved
- depleted.

We dreamed of a place where there was freedom from hate
Where peace could abate grief, and the deceit could deflate
Hearts roared with faith that we'll know our place when we die
Angels playing our favourite song, not a note misplaced or awry
Falling asleep as the chorus fades, while auroras blaze in the sky
Wake on the even the coldest days to see the lotus raise by the side
Of the river, it's winter time and it's bitter, but not a sign of a shiver
We rejoice in delight, enjoying the sight of cherubs aligning their quivers
Knowing we never need to join in the fight.

Contorted in pain, trapped in a fortress where the torturous reign
Torches aflame, as I'm held down with force and restrained
My body scorched 'til I'm nothing more than a corpse with a brain
I feel no remorse yet I feign like I repent from my evil deeds
As demons breathe down my neck, ignoring my reprieval pleas
They rip the skin from my bone, as their King sits on his throne
Prisoners prone; bowing before being tossed in the pit, a pitiful zone
Where the miserable moan and wither....alone
Now, with my body stripped and beaten, whipped and bleeding
This wicked cretin convinced that treason is my sin, I'm pleading
"I give in, my soul is shattered and my limbs are weakened"
But my pleas are ignored, while the murderous glow
Of Satan's eyes, blaze, as I'm tossed into the furnace below.

There may be justice in death, but it's based on the law of the land
And I was disgusting at best, nothing, a pest that God hadn't planned
I was a sinner in life, and I'm a sinner in death
Now I whimper regret....while I simmer and sweat
We were heathen beasts, the sweet release of death; Our key to peace
Our sea of grief was supposed to wash up on the shores of eternal bliss
Now I face the churning whip of the flame and its burning kiss
And just before it hits, I see my lovers face turn to me
Troubled, crazed...a struggle, laced with uncertainty
And blow him a final kiss, before we are both covered in flames for eternity

oats
01-26-2014, 03:52 PM
Black: the first time I read this last night, I must admit I didn't see strong ties to the topic. I was also pretty tired, and pretty high. Re-reading it again this morning, it's much more apparent. I like how you took the angle of law to be physical laws as opposed to legality. That definitely is more up my alley personally, but also I think it's a more interesting approach. The inner-monologue of rapid-fire imagery was dope as usual, and I loved how dreams are described as our escape from physical limitations (loved the bit about destiny denied due to our skeletal shape). Mid-verse when you started to compare the chains of physical law to the chains of expectations really rounded out the concept for me - sure, maybe preconceptions like that are not "law," but they certainly behave as such, since we tend to mold ourselves according to what others expect of us. What I enjoyed most, however, was that there's an undercurrent of hopeful angst that balances out the emotional resonance with the intellectualism that seems to come most natural for you. Although more rested, sober oats can see the connections much more vividly, there are still spots that seemed to meander a bit, and if there is any flaw I can point out it would be that perhaps there was too much being juggled here to be adequately explored. Then again, your writing pulls it off because there are so many ways to dissect. Airtight verse, really.


Witty: What stuck out to me last night was how on-point your rhyming was. Very impressive display of storytelling through complex schemes, to the point it was almost distracting lol. That's not a fault of yours, of course, but just a way to say that it was immediately identifiable as a strong spot of your verse. The first two stanzas place us in a pretty solid world, and the foundation for the narrative is all in place. Top notch writing. But there was a really sudden transition between stanzas 2 and 3 that threw me off. I get the effect of creating such a rigid contrast, but it didn't add up to me - why was this person, of such pure values and ambitions, being tortured? This was never really answered at all. The final 3 stanzas were rife with those kinds of moments. I didn't understand why he was in that situation, and I didn't have enough info on the character himself or his people to really make a connection with his plight. From my vantage point, it looks almost like you got lost in the rhyme schemes and neglected your story a little bit. The writing was really high-level, as good as anyone's I've seen, but as a story it was under-developed.

Vote: Black. Both dope, but Black just out-performed conceptually.

zygote
01-27-2014, 12:24 AM
Dead man, there are some one-liners that address the topic well. Enjoyed the ‘history makes emperors famous’ and the ‘academic persuasion mirrors theological strategy’ and the ‘but nothing that can justify or truly explain exists inside a box of preconceptions arranged.’ Each comments on a different aspect of injustice, the overall theme doesn’t seem too cohesive but the strongest theme seems to be in the last line ‘defying all belief in science, every time i fall asleep.’ It is perhaps a reference to inevitable morality as the only ‘law.’ Maybe you picked up on the ‘in the next world’ part of the quote, there was also some comparison to dreams/afterlife (with symbolic features of the doves/birds etc) as an added element.

Witty, perhaps needed a bit more framing, or some overarching framing device. The initial action seems a bit like it takes place within a self-contained vortex, which is OK when going for a kind of fantasy/metaphorical idea, but you went with heavy realism and grounded descriptive techniques. The lack of a definitive frame or time/setting period and realistic language did not mesh too well. I guess you could respond that the concept is universal, and ‘what is just to any individual may be unjust to another. ’ Also there is some allusion to heaven and hell. Actually, reading through it again, the first paragraph may be the earthly death scene, the second is ‘the transportation of the soul or whatever from physical into spiritual’ and the third is punishment in some fiery inferno, apparently because in the fourth it is revealed the main character was a homosexual? This twist ending gives it a bit of rounding out, but it all comes together a bit too suddenly, perhaps needed some more subtle foreshadowing. Now the title makes more sense, especially the specific use of the word ‘what is just to one - man…’ I read it as a comment on the injustice of dogmatic beliefs/tradition/laws against homosexuality, but it was a bit heavy handed. Perhaps you could have been more effective by substituting the hell punishment scene with a different scene about discrimination/injustice on Earth or something. Voting for dead man.

Lars
01-27-2014, 02:50 AM
Dizzamn, always hate voting on matches where the two are homies and crewmates, but then again by that token I know I'm in for a good read. Deadman: The fears you raised midweek in the chat thread were completely blown away, great verse and well written, I read it to do with the fact as long as you were a dreamer with belief in what you could achieve - none of the rules of social norm applied and you could do whatever you wanted. In your head while asleep, at least, you could achieve the impossible. Very well written verse here, loved the line about it being for the birds, thought that was a real standout here. History making emperors famous was another brilliant stroke of genius here too. All in all a solid showing, atypical Deadman style, but with enough substance to have us re-read it countless times and still find something we enjoyed.

Witness: You've always been a mechanics-heavy writer, and it still shows here, I like to think you got that from me. Lol. From a purely technical standpoint, I loved the back and forth and forth and back of the rhymes as you toyed with them, you know what you're doing and always seem to mix it up a few times in each verse rather than just adhere to a simpler form of AB-AB or something. It can help at times, but others it can be to the detriment of your writing, I've never been a fan of sections where they end like this:

They rip the skin from my bone, as their King sits on his throne
Prisoners prone; bowing before being tossed in the pit, a pitiful zone

There's something about that last rhyme; a pitiful zone that just seems broken from what you were saying previous to it. Almost like it was an afterthought or after the rest of the line was complete, you feel me? I can see WHY you did it given the scheme in the first time, I just personally am not a fan of those and so it stands out more to myself when reading even though it's only a minor thing. there were a couple of spots you did similar I noticed. The other main thing I feel to point out here is that because you were so mechanics-laden throughout, the concept wasn't really enough to grab me, or at least not developed enough to the point where I got to the end of it and let it resonate. I thought the line about 'justice being in death' was an original take to the topic, but just not adequately examined here, I'd have liked to have seen you really place that under the microscope and developed on it rather than just that final stanza coming down to a final 'twist' or 'reveal' without the stanzas before it all coming to a head. I know that may seem odd with it being a topical/storytelling piece, but there you have it. I am odd. I'm giving this to Deadman based on me preferring his tackling of the topic and creativity. Great battle, bros!

NYCSPITZ
01-27-2014, 12:04 PM
Witty this was dope brah, truly the mark of a champion's pen. I thought the extended descriptions of the man's suffering was a bit overdone, but other than that it was a well written, compelling story, although I have seen you write much better. As far as deadman, it carried profound sentiments, flowed wonderfully and rang true with reality's weight. Another great verse and I think he took it comfortably this time, but thanks for the read yo.

v/ black

big baby
01-27-2014, 03:39 PM
MY votes always go in a blackhole. Sigh, I had a long thing written up. I guess I'll expand onceeee again, but not as thoroughly. My pinky's feeling better though. It wasn't broken.

Deadmans verse wasnt as sharp as I thought it could be, but if you re-read it, it becomes a bit clearer to you. Not that it wasn't at first; it just seems theres a bit to be comprehended at second glance. This stood out a bit for me here, and not because of its duality. I sensed a bit of a rush here, if I look closely I see ideas being crunches together moreso than your other verses. A few lacking thoughts, and syllables seemed to be at an odd angle. With that being said, I don't think it really affected you much, because you have such a tightly wound verse,that the lacking of things, usually isn't really felt as a longer stanza, because you absorb things quicker, reading lines at a faster rate. So it's sort of like eating rice. In one fell swoop, a grain of rice won't fill you up, but a thousand might. Your writing reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg joke he said once.

"Rice is my favorite thing to eat when I'm hungry and I want one thousand of something."

That's exactly how your style comes off to me. Just a bowl of rice, crisp to perfection. I eat a lot of rice. It's easy for a baby to digest. Again, this round your concepts dont seem to be fully tangible, but they're connected with such a tight compact way of writing, they seem to just be connecting enough to create an image, without crisp detailed wording, it just falls into place, and a brush stroke painting with water colors is drawn to you by a street artist. I sorta want you to stop talking in this narrative, and actually describe something for once, not in essence, but just in true language. You created a quirky image that spoke to me after a few readings. It was compact, and tight, and delivered nicely on a katana blade, sliced to nicely sized portions.


Witty. Awesome writing, I'm checking if I did post, but I didn't. Which actually infuriates me, because I wrote this huge piece about you, and this verse, but agh. Mechanically, this verse was up there. It had a few rough edges but nothing that wasnt forcibly buffed out by the force of which you continued to stray on. I've actually never seen anything you've written for the most part. And this was cool. I liked the study vibe, a maniacal counter voice, spoken to a few, and affecting many. This following couplet was razor sharp.

We dreamed of a place where there was freedom from hate
Where peace could abate grief, and the deceit could deflate
Hearts roared with faith that we'll know our place when we die
Angels playing our favourite song, not a note misplaced or awry

I re-read it and read very smooth. I even enjoyed the u in favorite. Very European of you. My only problem with this is that you seemed to go on a tangent that I couldnt fully provide the right direction in which you were writing. Though, I can see the whole picture: I'll italicize the ambiguous setting to show you exactly where *I* thought your tone switched without no warning, or contract.

Prisoners prone; bowing before being tossed in the pit, a pitiful zone
Where the miserable moan and wither....alone
Now, with my body stripped and beaten, whipped and bleeding
This wicked cretin convinced that treason is my sin, I'm pleading
"I give in, my soul is shattered and my limbs are weakened"
But my pleas are ignored, while the murderous glow
Of Satan's eyes, blaze, as I'm tossed into the furnace below.


From the italicized point, thereon, I felt a shift. It was odd. It wasn't bad. It was good, but the knowing of a tangent is only clear to the author usually at first. If an undertone isnt perpetually scripted, then it's the readers job to take task in an inherent attempt to depict why, when, how, who, where, and what. This was weird because until that point I was thoroughly following a storyline, and then after that, It felt as if I was reading one of those books where chronologically the narrative is at another point in time and it then connects towards the end of the book/reading. This cost you the battle in my opinion, but I'll further go into detail. Both of you had a sense of, almost....it seemed rush. But I can't really pinpoint a word to describe it. Because it isn't rushed... it just seemed.....uninspired to a total length and able to imitate longevity in a sense of, sardonic mishap. Or something.


The ending...


There may be justice in death, but it's based on the law of the land
And I was disgusting at best, nothing, a pest that God hadn't planned
I was a sinner in life, and I'm a sinner in death
Now I whimper regret....while I simmer and sweat
We were heathen beasts, the sweet release of death; Our key to peace
Our sea of grief was supposed to wash up on the shores of eternal bliss
Now I face the churning whip of the flame and its burning kiss
And just before it hits, I see my lovers face turn to me
Troubled, crazed...a struggle, laced with uncertainty
And blow him a final kiss, before we are both covered in flames for eternity

was exquisitely written. But I don't get if there's a second meaning for flames. The quote reads, justice in the next life, is the person being described a perpetrator, and a repetitive not repenting sinner, or is he a justful man? See that's never made totally clear, in the beginning it sounds like a man UNJUSTFULLY tried. You mention the crawling at his feet, and it depicts an image of incarceration, of obscene kinds. Then at the end, in relation to the direct quote, they are in flames for eternity, and I believe being in flames in eternity is a correlation to hell, which means, what exactly? This sounds like me nitpicking, but I'm trying to make sense here. Though I understand it doesnt have to be one character cemented, and it could be various, or one told by another, or god himself speaking through two or just one person. And excuse me, but are there TWO guys,and are they gay? Cause that's pretty hot, and gay. My only inquiry would be, the unknowing nature of what made him/her?? to end unjustly, besides the factual basis of actually being trapped/incarcerated/tortured. Nothing in that nature was made clear. I wasn't looking for a story; per se, but maybe some insight wouldve bolstered the actual tenacity of this well written verse. Both of you seem a bit uninspired, or what have you, Idk. I enjoyed both verses, and this is very close, and I was leaning towards witty, but the ending just seemed a bit off for my taste, though it seemed pretty well balanced. Ugh. I just can't see myself thoroughly being completely satisfied, and I have to give the credit where is it to be given, which is deserved in both of your efforts. Thanks for the read guys.